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Stara 20.4.2009, 19:45   #1
donator99
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Citat:
URGENT - VOTING IN EU PARLIAMENT 5th of MAY 2009
Don't let the EU parliament lock up the Internet! It will be no way back!
Act now!
Internet access is not conditional


Everyone who owns a website has an interest in defending the free use of Internet... so has everyone who uses Google or Skype... everyone who expresses their opinions freely, does research of any kind, whether for personal health problems or academic study ... everyone who shops online...who dates online...socialises online... listens to music...watches video...

The internet as we know it is at risk because of proposed new EU rules going through end of April. Under the proposed new rules, broadband providers will be legally able to limit the number of websites you can look
at, and to tell you whether or not you are allowed to use particular services. It will be dressed up as ‘new consumer options' which people can choose from. People will be offered TV-like packages - with a limited
number of options for you to access.



It means that the Internet will be packaged up and your ability to access and to put up content could be severely restricted. It will create boxes of Internet accessibility, which don't fit with the way we use it today. This is because internet is now permitting exchanges between persons which cannot be controlled or "facilitated" by any middlemen (the state or a corporation) and this possibility improves the citizen's life but force the industry to lose power and control. that's why they are pushing governments to act those changes.

The excuse is to control the flow of music, films and entertainment content against the alleged piracy by downloading for free, using P2P file-sharing. However, the real victims of this plan will be all Internet users and the democratic and independent access to information, culture goods.


Think about how you use the Internet! What would it mean to you if free access to the Internet was taken away?
These days, the Internet is about life and freedom. It's about shopping, booking theatre tickets ... holidays, learning, job-seeking, banking, and trade. It's also about the fun things - dating, chatting, invitations, music, entertainment, joking and even a Second Life. It is a tool to express ourselves, to collaborate, innovate, share, stimulate new business ideas, reach new markets - thrive without middlemen..



Just think - what's your web address? Unless people have that address in their "package" of regular websites - they won't be able to find you. That means they can't buy, or book, or register, or even view you online. Your business won't be able to find niche suppliers of goods - and compare prices. If you get any money at all from advertising on your site, it will diminish. Yes, Amazon and a select few will be OK, they will be the included in the package. But your advertising on Google or any other website, will be increasingly worthless. Skype could be blocked. (As it is in Germany in the use from iPhone, already). Small businesses could literally disappear, especially specialist, niche or artisan businesses.

If we don't do something now - we could lose free and open use of the internet. Our freedom (of choice in information, market, culture, pleasure) will be curtailed. The EU proposals hold an enormous risk for our future. They are about to become Law - and will be virtually impossible to reverse. People (even the members of the European Parliament who are voting on it) don't really seem to understand the full implications and the legal changes are wrapped up in something called "Telecoms Package" which lulls people into thinking it is just about industry.



However, in reality, hiding from public view, the amendments are about the way the Internet will operate in future! Text that expresses your rights to access and distribute content, services and applications, is being crossed out. And the text that is being brought in, says that broadband providers must inform you of any limitations, or restrictions to your broadband service. Alternative versions use the word ‘conditions' - and it is seriously being proposed that you will be told the conditions of use of Internet services. This is made to sound good - it is dressed up as ‘transparency' - except that of course it means that the broadband providerwill have the legal right restrict your access or impose conditions,otherwise why would they need tell you? If the Telecoms Package amendmentsare voted in, the changes will not be reversible.

We all have a stake in the Internet! You need to act now to save it!
What can you do about it?


Tell the European Parliament to vote against conditional access to the Internet! Remind them that they need your vote in June and that internet still give us the tools to be watching and judging what they are doing! (link a la quadrature du net) You must know you are not alone: hundreds of organizations are working on that and thousands of people have already contact their parliamentarians about this issue.
Izvor.

Poslednja ispravka: donator99 (20.4.2009 u 20:43)
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Stara 20.4.2009, 19:47   #2
donator99
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Citat:
European Parliament loses amendment in key Internet vote Written by Monica Horten Apr 16, 2009 at 10:17 AM An amendment is mysteriously dropped as the IMCO committee unquestioningly make an important vote on the Internet's future, with only 27 members present, and a key Shadow absent. And more deals being done on the Trautmann report. How democratic are the European Parliament's Committee procedures?

With only 60 per cent of IMCO members present, and the key socialist Shadow absent, the IMCO committee voted through without questioning, amendments which will fundamentally alter the structure of the Internet. One amendment was permitted by the rapporteur on condition that he can ‘improve it.'
The results of their vote - on the Universal Services and e-Privacy directive (Harbour report) - have now been published in the consolidated Recommendation for Second Reading . But Amendment 6=110 tabled by Malcolm Harbour and Jacques Toubon is
missing. That is, it has not been transcribed into the consolidated amendments for the revised Harbour report of 23 February. This amendment was voted by the IMCO committee on 31 March.

The significance of this amendment is not what is says, but what it doesn't say. It amended the Parliament's First Reading position of 24 September, which said that ISPs should not be asked to take any kind of punitive action against their customers. The punitive action could be a court action OR a filtering block. Harbour and Toubon changed it by crossing out the relevant words, so that ISPs could be asked to take punitive action such as filtering. The way it currently reads, it has deceived many people, including lawyers, who ask me why I don't like it, because it simply restates the status quo that ISPs cannot be asked to take criminal action against their customers.

Whatever the case, the process should be followed correctly. If the rapporteur is going to withdraw it, he should make it clear. Otherwise, how do MEPs know whether it is going to be reinstated at a later stage, when no-one will notice, and they could end up voting for it.
It is indicative of an overall sloppiness in procedure for this vote. I noticed that during the vote, the Chair-woman was not clear on where the split was in the split vote of CA5, but she just put it through anyway. I've also noticed that the numbering on the voting listis incorrect for Amendments 91-96, and the commitee actually voted in two different versions of Article 18, although this is not reflected in the consolidated version.
The committee voted with only 24 members out of 44 - almost half were absent - and 3 substitutes - totalling 27 present. That is 60% of the total committee members were there, for one of the most important votes which will affect users rights on the Internet for many years to come.
One of the Shadow rapporteurs, Bernadette Vernaud, did not show up at all for the vote. Janelly Fourtou, the wife of Vivendi CEO, did attend. She voted in favour of the report, which will also favour Vivendi's business interests, and which has the support of the French pro-copyright MEP Jacques Toubon.

Malcolm Harbour said after the vote that he wants to change Article 32(a) which is a safeguard for users against the punitive sanctions that he and M . Toubon want to permit with their amendment. He said it ‘needs improvements' - if those improvements are anything like the re-write that M. Toubon has already tabled, they will certain improve things for the copyright industries, but not for users.
He thanked the committee for their ‘vote of confidence in our approach'. Now, my understanding is that the committee vote is definitive for the plenary - but how can it be so, when the rapporteur has not finished his job, and the committee can not be in a position to know what it is voting on?
Meanwhile, Catherine Trautmann is understood already done a deal before amendments tabled to her report can be considered. Mrs Trautmann is rapporteur for the Framework, Access and Authorisation directives (Trautmann report). As an example, on the Framework directive, Article 9.1, the Greens have tabled an amendment to remove the language of ‘resstrictions' but Mrs Trautmann has bowed to the French and UK governments, and altered the language to match Mr Harbour's language on ‘conditions limiting access to applications and services'.
When the individual rapporteurs have the unquestioned power to alter the structure of Internet with their keyboard, how democratic is this process?
Izvor.
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Stara 20.4.2009, 19:49   #3
donator99
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Citat:
NB. I cannot find a copy of the IMCO Second Reading recommendations, consolidated version, online, so here is the text of the two amendments I refer to above.
Article 32a
Access to content, services and applications
Member States shall ensure that any restrictions to
users' rights to access content, services and
applications, if they are necessary, shall be
implemented by appropriate measures, in
accordance with the principles of proportionality,
effectiveness and dissuasiveness. These measures
shall not have the effect of hindering the
development of the information society, in
compliance with Directive 2000/31/EC, and shall not
conflict with citizens' fundamental rights, including
the right to privacy and the right to due process."


Amendment 6=110
This is the amendment which has disappeared from the IMCO committee consolidated version. The issue with the amendment below, is what is crossed out - the provision that ISPs will not be required to take punitive action against their subscribers, where 'punitive action' could be 3-strikes measures, or protocol blocking, as proposed in the UK's Digital Britain consultation. The removal of this provision, leaves the way open for ISPs to take these kinds of measures against their customers. This was made clear in the justification by M. Toubon.
If it has been withdrawn, wouldn't correctprocedure be to tell MEPs? If this is not made clear, could they still be asked to vote on in in the May 5th plenary.
Universal services directive Recital (22a)
Directive 2002/22/EC does not
require providers to monitor information
transmitted over their networks or to
take punitive action or legal prosecution
[<-- ova linija je precrtana]
bring legal proceedings against their
customers due to on grounds of such
information, nor does it make providers
liable for that information. Responsibility
for any such punitive action or legal
[<-- takodje precrtano]
criminal prosecution remains with the
relevant law enforcement authorities.
[Isti izvor kao i u prethodnom postu]
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Stara 20.4.2009, 20:36   #4
GoranSTX
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Odličan primer kako ne treba postavljati vesti. Iako me naslov zaintrigirao ovolika količina texta je svakako ubila volju za čitanjem. Ja sad zakeram, ali vest se objavi u dve-tri koncizne rečenice pa koga interesuje ići će dalje putem datog izvora.

Jel može sad ukratko o čemu se radi ili ću stvarno morati da čitam sve ovo?
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dzonihsv (20.4.2009)
Stara 20.4.2009, 20:38   #5
donator99
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Sve sto treba da procitas se nalazi u prvom postu, drugi i treci su analiza glasanja (preciznije, 2. je analiza, dok je 3. copy-paste amandmana) koje ce se odigrati 5. maja.
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Stara 20.4.2009, 20:39   #6
dzonihsv
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Koliko sam ja s'vatio, prica se nesto o blokiranju/sakrivanju web strana (servisa itd.), nesto slicno kao sto postoji u Kini. Znas kad ce to da im prodje, 'oce, 'oce... Kada svinju budu letele.
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Stara 20.4.2009, 20:44   #7
zoran845
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Citat:
GoranSTX kaže: Pregled poruke
Jel može sad ukratko o čemu se radi ili ću stvarno morati da čitam sve ovo?
Ukratko: Neko u Evropskoj uniji (navodno) želi da progura zakon po kome će provajderi moći da ograniče broj sajtova kojima će korisnici njihovih usluga moći da pristupe.

U prevodu: sutra ti "Telekom" kaže - "možeš na (recimo) 'Гугл', ali nema da ideš na (recimo) 'Пајрат Беј'".
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Stara 20.4.2009, 20:46   #8
GoranSTX
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Citat:
donator99 kaže: Pregled poruke
Sve sto treba da procitas se nalazi u prvom postu, drugi i treci su analiza glasanja (preciznije, 2. je analiza, dok je 3. copy-paste amandmana) koje ce se odigrati 5. maja.
Onda se to tako napiše, ja (a verujem ni drugi) ne znaju da je sve što treba da se pročita u prvom postu... Pardoniram na napornosti, ali šta da ti radim

EDIT: @zoran845
a daaa, o ovome se već pričalo, čini mi se da je i u Ameriki bila neka slična inicijativa. Da se internet tarifira i distribuira kao recimo kablovska TV. Uzmeš paket koji ti odgovara (lokalni net + Google ili lokalni net + google + XXX sajtovi + Piratizovani zaliv i dobiješ Facebook i MySpace i još 37 soc net sajtova FOR FREE!!! Dont miss this one time offer )
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Stara 20.4.2009, 20:49   #9
Deusdies
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Ma nije to to, ljudi. Evropska komisija je davno dosla na ideju da filtrira sajtove za decu; odnosno, uvesce mnogo vecu kontrolu npr. XXX sajtova za mladje od 18 godina i ostale sadrzaje koje nisu preporucljive za omladinu (koliko ja znam, postovace se PEGI standardi ili slicni). Ukratko: EU nece da blokira internet kao sto to radi Kina, to je apsurdno.
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Stara 20.4.2009, 20:54   #10
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Bice na foru kao sto i sad rade neki EU provajderi



Nadam se samo da do nas nece doci ta vrsta 'napretka i demokratije'

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Stara 20.4.2009, 21:02   #11
donator99
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Ta slika je vezana za zabranu pristupa siteova sa pedofilijom, ovde se radi o mogucnosti "podele" interneta na tematske zone za ciji je pristup potrebno izdvojiti odredjenu svotu novca.

Citat:
...Under the proposed new rules, broadband providers will be legally able to limit the number of websites you can look...
Naravno, moguce je da do ovoga nece doci, ali ISP-evi ce imati sredstva pomocu kojih ce moci da urade ovako nesto.

Bolje spreciti, nego leciti...
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Stara 20.4.2009, 21:16   #12
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Mi nismo u EU :P
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Stara 20.4.2009, 21:18   #13
dzonihsv
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^ Polako, polako... Nije pitanje da li smo ili nismo u EU, doci ce i na nas red (ko zna kada ali ce doci) a onda bolje da sada sprecimo nego da posle kukamo.
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Stara 20.4.2009, 21:25   #14
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Citat:
donator99 kaže: Pregled poruke
Ta slika je vezana za zabranu pristupa siteova sa pedofilijom, ovde se radi o mogucnosti "podele" interneta na tematske zone za ciji je pristup potrebno izdvojiti odredjenu svotu novca.

Naravno, moguce je da do ovoga nece doci, ali ISP-evi ce imati sredstva pomocu kojih ce moci da urade ovako nesto.

Bolje spreciti, nego leciti...
nisam ni citao sta pise jer govorim nemacki isto kao i finski
postavio sam sliku vise kao ilustraciju, jer filtriranje je filtriranje;


Naravno da ISP moze da implementira ovakva ogranicenja, setite se primera od pre mesec dva kad su UK provajderi blokirali pristup do nekakvog clanka na wikipediji (greskom). ljusi nisu imali pojma, izlazila im klasicna 404 greska

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Stara 20.4.2009, 22:55   #15
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Možda mogu da nam ukinu internet, ali ne mogu da nam zabrane da dresiramo majmune da trče od grada do grada i nose kriptovane IP pakete odštampane i u zatvorenim kovertama...

(U prevodu, ako ukinu jedan, korisnici će napraviti drugi paralelan prvom, jer su svi protokoli koji su nam potrebni - javni i slobodni, a oprema relativno jeftina.... bar za http, na youtube zaboravite)
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A M G (21.4.2009), Jim Bravura (21.4.2009)
Stara 21.4.2009, 0:48   #16
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Deusdies kaže: Pregled poruke
Ma nije to to, ljudi. Evropska komisija je davno dosla na ideju da filtrira sajtove za decu; odnosno, uvesce mnogo vecu kontrolu npr. XXX sajtova za mladje od 18 godina i ostale sadrzaje koje nisu preporucljive za omladinu (koliko ja znam, postovace se PEGI standardi ili slicni). Ukratko: EU nece da blokira internet kao sto to radi Kina, to je apsurdno.
Povlačim ovo što sam rekao. Pogledajte ovo !

Mada, postoji tu i druga strana priče. Uskoro su u EU izbori za predstavnike u Evropskom parlamentu. Skorašnja anketa pokazala je da čak 60% građana ili ne zna za izbore, ili neće glasati na njima. Moguće da je sve ovo samo pompa, odnosno da se dobije medijska pažnja zbog izbora.
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Stara 21.4.2009, 2:15   #17
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ovakvu je budućnost predvidjao i jedan txt u nekom davnom broju SKa... ali ta situacija nije bila uzrokovana nekim zakonom nego jednostavno lenjošću korisnika... pa su u medjuvremenu svi osim gulga,jahua i sl. bili pojedeni ili izumrli...
a i ovde se vidi lenjost korisnika-svi su išli na PB a ne na neke druge sajtove [iste namene],pa je PB postao prevelik i počeo da smeta...
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Stara 21.4.2009, 3:36   #18
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Bilo je lepo dok je trajalo!
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Stara 21.4.2009, 9:55   #19
dzonihsv
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Ovo nece proci, 100% sam siguran u to. Koliko miliona ljudi koriste internet i sada ce iz cista mira da im dodju pretplate, blokiranja i kojekakva sr***. Ako i bude nesto slicno, siguran sam da ce biti demonstracija.
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Stara 21.4.2009, 12:16   #20
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I ovi naši jedva čekaju da uvedu evropske zabrane i takse.Što je već i bilo, ono oko nadzora i špijunaže korisnika



S druge strane, poštujem tuđi rad, i rado bih platio malo i autorima koji traže svoja prava

Poslednja ispravka: water wizard (21.4.2009 u 14:57)
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