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17.1.2008, 2:32 | #1 |
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Lista PS3 igara i SPE iskorišćenosti u njima
Dakle, kao sto znate PS3 je pokrenut od strane svemocnog Cell procesora.Cell procesor se sastoji od jednog PPE-a(glavni deo Cella) i 7 SPE-a(ustvari 6 jer je jedan iskljucen da bi se poboljsao procenat ispravnih cipova).Dakle, svaka PS3 igra koristi PPE, ali mnoge uopste ne koriste tih 6 SPE-a, sto znaci da ni izbilza ne koriste svu moc PS-a 3.Evo male liste iz par komentara o PS3 igrama i iskoriscenosti SPE-ova u istim.
PS3 games list & SPE usages According to IBM the bulk of the PS3's processing power is located in Cell's SPEs. Without using them games development is very similar to developing a game on a decent specced single processor PC or Mac (so not really difficult at all like some developers claim, funnily those who do not even use the SPEs in the porting process, it should then actually be pretty straight foward (with of course the advantage of being able to optimize for a single uniform configuration). PS3 exclusive devs who are using the SPEs claim it's not more difficult to develop for and that it's much easier to develop for than for the PS2. Considering more and more games start to utilize these SPEs I thought it would be interesting to list those games and possibly deduct those which don't. Beyond3D Motorstorm interview: "Scott Kirkland: Cell’s SPUs provide a huge amount of processing power. Early adopters tended to bias usage towards either RSX or PPU support (we fall into the latter category). I’m confident that over the coming months, exploitation of this resource will become far more balanced." PS3 games that are known to use the Cell's SPEs 1) Resistance:Fall of Man "Animation and calculating collisions between objects are perfect fits, says Hastings. So those are the primary jobs Resistance doles out to the SPEs.." Source: Spectrum online 2) Ratchet and Clank Future: TOD "We were using the SPUs and that's a key to having a game that runs fast on the PS3, but there were a lot of things that we knew we could improve, and we have been improving them on Ratchet. And even with Ratchet, we're still seeing more and more things we can do; it's kind of like peeling off the layers of an onion." Source: Gamedaily "We are continuing to build our Insomniac Engine and have made many improvements to it since Resistance: Fall of Man. The one huge focus for us has been moving more of our processes over to the SPUs on the CELL processor. This has allowed us to get our physics and effects systems running roughly four times faster than it did in Resistance at nearly double the framerate, which is something you can see in weapons like the Tornado Launcher." Source: The New Zealand Herald 3) Motorstorm "SPU usage is a good example. The progressive development of corresponding debugging and profiling tools made thorough exploitation of this powerful resource quite challenging for the less technically biased members of the team. In the aftermath of MotorStorm, with mature tools at our disposal, we’ve been developing mechanisms to make the PPU and SPU’s power and parallelism far more accessible to our entire team, re-thinking data organization and algorithms in the process. MotorStorm only uses between 15 and 20 percent of available SPU resource, so we’re aiming to achieve a 5 fold increase in SPU performance, which should allow us to do some awesome stuff!" "Our SPU exploiting systems consist of: i) Havok physics. ii) Determination of object visibility. iii) Concatenation of hierarchies. iv) Billboard object culling and vertex buffer creation. v) Updating of particles and vertex buffer creation. vi) Updating of vehicle dynamics. vii) Updating of vehicle suspension constraints. viii) Audio (MultiStream). ix) Video decoding." Source: Beyond3D 4) Formula One Championship Edition "We don't really use the concept of reserving certain SPUs for specific tasks. Instead we employ the concept of prioritized job lists that are executed by the SPUs whenever one is available. We use the SPUs for the following jobs: audio effects, particle system, physics (landscape collision, narrow phase and collision resolution), rain effects (rain droplets and rain splashes) and various render side jobs. The game logic is driven largely by the PPU. We use the SPUs together to collaborate on working through each frame that's displayed by the game. The SPUs are extremely versatile so they can be used to accelerate any in-game system." The SPUs are heavily involved in the graphics pipeline and do an enormous amount of work to eliminate inefficiency before anything arrives at the PPU and RSX. For example, the SPUs are powerful enough to decompress and check every triangle [polygon] before passing it on to the RSX. Triangles that are facing away from the player, or that are not on the screen can be 'trimmed' away by the SPUs, which hugely reduces the amount of redundant work sent to the RSX. This in turn lets the RSX get on with what it does best--drawing stuff on screen. The SPUs can also be used to augment the RSX vertex shaders, making far more vertex-heavy tasks possible which is very useful for character animation. Additionally, the SPUs can be used to implement behavior very similar to geometry shaders--F1 CE uses them in this way to render seamless interpolated levels of detail for some scene elements. So in answer to the question "Do the Cell and RSX work together?" the answer is a resounding "Yes," and I think this is one of the real strengths of Playstation 3 that we'll see increasingly exploited by development teams going forward. Poslednja ispravka: donator99 (17.1.2008 u 3:18) |
17.1.2008, 2:33 | #2 |
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Re: List of PS3 games&SPE usage
6) Heavenly Sword
" In Heavenly Sword, the Cell enables incredible numbers of enemies to be on screen at one time. The trick is that Cell treats entire regiments as a single unit of artificial intelligence when they are at a distance; as they draw closer, Cell gradually divides the army into smaller and smaller groups, so they eventually become individual troops with unique fighting styles and tactics." "Heavenly Sword is one of the first PS3 games to tap into Cell's true potential. Here are the highlights. Artificial Intelligence To keep up with the hundreds of on-screen enemies, Cell treats distant armies as a singlular "hive mind." As they approach Nariko, Cell splits their intelligence across squads, and finally, individual troops. Graphics Wind gusts swirl Nariko's hair and clothes, and bazooka blasts send out showers of dust and rubble. 1080p support is still a question mark, though. Physics When firing a cannon, Nariko can influence the trajectory of the projectile using the Sixaxis. Ninja Theory claims it needs the Cell to handle these complex calculations." Source: Gamepro "Personally I really love the SPUs as they have exceeded our performance expectations and we've got a lot of them to play with." Source: Eurogamer 7) Lair "We have all of our animations running on the S.P.U.s of the Cell's chip because you couldn't draw armies or basically animate armies of that amount and size without it. And our physics are completely on there. We are also doing fluid dynamics for the first time in a game, as far as I know. Water is not basically a sheet of a base surface, but completely animated and sub-divided, and you actually can direct with it thanks to the Cell. We actually do part of our rendering on the Cell. Simply because it's so powerful, we spent months and months moving more and more systems onto the S.P.U.'s." "Not a specific S.P.U. Our S.P.U. code works dynamically, so we are not locking up one S.P.U. and saying "OK, you are the A.I. S.P.U., but we instead say, "OK, here are these 15 things including A.I." We run them on the S.P.U., and the code automatically distributes them. And sometimes, yes, A.I. certainly can take up a full S.P.U." Source: Gamepro 8) Killzone 2 "In this talk, we will discuss our approach to face this challenge and how we designed a deferred rendering engine that uses multi-sampled anti-aliasing (MSAA). We will give in-depth description of each individual stage of our real-time rendering pipeline and the main ingredients of our lighting, post-processing and data management. We’ll show how we utilize PS3’s SPUs for fast rendering of a large set of primitives, parallel processing of geometry and computation of indirect lighting. We will also describe our optimizations of the lighting and our parallel split (cascaded) shadow map algorithm for faster and stable MSAA output." Source: Killzoneunit "We've created our own proprietary technology to drive the game, and this is using many of PS3's specific strengths.Large quantities of data can be streamed because we have a great deal of storage capacity. This allows for the level of detail you can see in the game. It is not a luxury to have Blu-ray, but rather a necessity, as compression only gets you so far. I mean, the level that we showed at E3 and Leipzig topped out around 2GB! Also having the CELL and SPUs means we can offload all of our physics processing to an SPU, or process AI using the SPU's. All this processing power just means we can add more detail and create that Hollywood-type realism we're after." Source: GamePro.com I think the following article sheds more light on how the SPEs are currently used in Killzone 2, and addresses the advanced deferred rendering techniques Guerrilla Games already implemented for the game so far. 9) Final Fantasy XIII (uses SPE enabled White Engine) "The White Engine reportedly uses four of the six developer-available synergistic processing elements (SPEs) of the Cell microprocessor to achieve near-pre-rendered CGI quality in realtime." Source: Play UK through Wikipedia 10) Gran Turismo 5 11) Warhawk "Although I would say it’s the sum-total of all of our natural phenomenon in the game. Our clouds, procedural water, atmospheric scattering, terrain, etc. All of this stuff runs in parallel on all 7 SPUs simultaneously every frame – I’m still not sure if the game community is giving enough credit to just how fast the SPUs really are." |
17.1.2008, 2:34 | #3 |
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Re: List of PS3 games&SPE usage
12) Untold Legends
13) Uncharted: Drake’s fortune "Like the PS2 the PS3 is a sophisticated and powerful piece of hardware. Our engineers are working very hard at making specific optimizations to take full advantage of the Cell and its SPU's. However, there is so much depth to this machine, that much like the PS2, you will continue to see developers squeeze more and more out of it over the course of what I am sure is going to be a lengthy life-cycle." Source: IGN "We are utilizing all SPUs in Uncharted for AI, animation and lots of other systems. We are however just starting to tap into the power of the Cell. In future games I can promise even more utilization of the Cell which will result in more of everything, including game play." Source: Ars Technica "As far as the Cell processor is concerned, we're actually using about a third to half of that right now, so there's still a bit of untapped potential there." " I would say number one thing is animation, and the fact that the Cell processor has so much raw horse power that you could just throw more and more at it and it doesn't break a sweat. Our animation system is very complex, and we layer on dozens of frames of animation so you have that fluidity of movement where Nathan Drake can be running across a courtyard, stumbling over a rock as he's ducking under a hail of gunfire, reloading his weapon and rolling into cover, and all of these animations can happen simultaneously. " Source: GameSpot "The PlayStation 3 has a lot of power. When we started Uncharted we were really ambitious and had no idea what the PS3 would give us. Once we got the first devkits, we realized quickly that we could do everything we had planned to. The three main points for me are the Cell, Blu-Ray and the hard drive. We’ve been using the Cell for pretty much all our systems: rendering, particles, physics simulation, collision detection, animation, AI, decompression, water simulation, etc … and to give you an idea of the power of the PS3, we're using only 30 percent of the Cell processor. In terms of Blu-Ray, we just couldn’t have made Uncharted without it; with Uncharted we have almost filled it (91 percent). We're also using the hard drive to pre-cache data from the Blu-Ray disc. That allows us to stream up to 12 streams for sound, load level data super fast and more importantly to stream textures constantly to guarantee high-res quality on the screen. " Source: Ars Technica "Basically, in Jak I we had somewhere in the vicinity of 300-350 animations for Jak and everyone was really happy with the fluidity of his movement and the response. In Uncharted, Drake has got more than 3500 animations and the difference is we're now taking the cell processor and we're taking say two dozen of those animations, like we've got his running animations, flinching animations, reloading animations, rolling animations, just dozens of animations all at once being layered on top of each other and then the cell processor recreates on the fly the single frame of animation that you need to be able to play the game at that moment and the fact we can just dump more and more work on that processor and its SPUs just means we can free up our CPU to do more general purpose tasks. " Source: PALGN 14) Infamous "For us, the most exciting part of the PS3 has been the cell processor, the SPUs specifically. In our highest density scenes right now, we are currently using about 30 percent of the SPUs' capabilities--with the SPUs doing lots of heavy lifting for us on rendering, visibility, particle systems, skinning, animation blending, and so on...this with scores of pedestrians, cars, fires, etc., all going on. And the best part? We've not made any significant attempts to even optimize the SPU code. I think it's reasonable to guess we could put 10 times as much stuff on the SPUs and still make our frame budgets. It's really pretty amazing." Source: Gamespot 15) The Getaway 3 - Tech demo 16) Unreal Tournament 3 - Sony developers helping Epic. 17) Ninja Gaiden Sigma "There are games that have thousands of enemies at once, and some of them don’t move or do much. For us it’s about making sure they have goals they are fulfilling and that they can work together with existing enemies. That’s really our philosophy. As far as A.I. goes people have played our game before will see that we’ve made some subtle improvements. A lot of it has to do with using all the Cell’s SPU processors." "One important thing about the PS3 is the seven SPUs in addition to the main processor, and using those is what allows you to get the best graphic quality. So we have an entire section of programmers which is assigned to figure out how to get those SPUs working on graphics to the fullest. Now we're actually at the point where day-to-day you can see the graphic quality improve before your eyes, so to speak. So if you look at the screenshots we have for you today -- if you look at those compared to what we put out at TGS, there's a big difference in terms of the textures and the atmosphere. You can see the steps we've made since then." Games that don't use SPEs: 1) Genji: Days of the Blade (Great visuals, mediocre game, confirmed by developer not to be using the SPEs) 2) Half-Life 2: Orange Box (Confirmed by developer) 3) Splinter Cell 4) The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (Great game, looks better than on XBox 360 combined with reduced loading times, but this mainly due to harddrive caching, maybe includes some limited middleware SPE usage) 5) Fight Night Round 3 (overall still a good improvement over the XBox 360 version) 6) Full Auto 2: Battlelines (Mediocre, still an improvement over the original and 1080p) 7) Ridge Racer 7(OK game, overall a good improvement over RR6 and 1080p) 8) Madden NFL 07 9) Madden NFL 08 10) Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas (Nice game) 11) Enchanted Arms 12) F.E.A.R. 13) Sonic the Hedgehog 14) Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 |
17.1.2008, 22:41 | #4 |
Član
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Re: List of PS3 games&SPE usage
lepo sve to ali.... cinjenice su to valjda
ne bih da zvuchim kao nintendo fanboy , ali koga briga sta su developeri uradili, a sta nisu... ovo sve mi zvuchi kao kad gledash snimanje nekog filma i onda se svi glumci ulizuju reditelju, scenaristi i ostalima a ti, kao gledaoc pomislish da ce biti odlican film...a ono nista. nemoj da mislish da pocinjem flame ili hocu da zapocnem neki nextgen rat , ali ovo sto si "pejstovao" "sony propagandu" je sasvim suvisno, nepotrebno, a i na engleskom je. mogao si da nam dash linkove ili sve da prevedesh. |
17.1.2008, 23:06 | #5 |
Deo inventara foruma
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Re: List of PS3 games&SPE usage
Nije Sony propaganda
Kao sto sam vidis, vecina ovoga su intervjui sa 3rd party developerima, koji govore koliko njihove igre koriste moci Cell-a.Dakle, cak i prelepi Uncharted, koji je u ovom trenutku najlepsa igra za konzole na trzistu jedva koristi 30% snage SPE-a, sto znaci da cemo morati cekati God of War 3 kako bi videli realni domet PS-a 3(God of War 4 ce najverovatnjie iscediti 100% snage iz Cella).Cell je mnogo jaci procesor nego sto izgleda na papiru i za njegovu potpunu optimizaciju ce trebati dosta vremena A, ako neko hoce ovo da prevede, moze, nije mi se dalo 18000 karaktera da prevodim... |
18.1.2008, 1:43 | #6 |
Banned
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Re: List of PS3 games&SPE usage
Odlican feljton samo nastavi,nekim firmama odgovara izazov nekim ne.
Nikakva tajna.Po textu se moze primjetiti da su neki povrsno dali svoje komentare ,pa ipak sve je chisto informativno o tome kako i sta radi po pitanju igara i hardwera. |
26.1.2008, 16:37 | #7 | |
Deo inventara foruma
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Re: List of PS3 games&SPE usage
Jos infoa o moci Cella:
Citat:
Spoiler za slike:
Poslednja ispravka: Ocelot (10.2.2008 u 17:33) |
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26.1.2008, 16:38 | #8 | |
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Re: List of PS3 games&SPE usage
A evo i intervjua sa likom iz Allegorithmica
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28.1.2008, 17:26 | #9 | ||||
Deo inventara foruma
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Re: List of PS3 games&SPE usage
Likovi iz Naughty Doga pricaju o upotrebi Cell-a u Unchartedu:
Citat:
Citat:
Citat:
Citat:
Poslednja ispravka: donator99 (29.1.2008 u 11:46) Razlog: update+bump |
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10.2.2008, 17:12 | #10 | ||||
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Re: List of PS3 games&SPE usage
Citat:
[source beyond3d] Citat:
[source beyond3d] Citat:
[preneseno sa Neogafa(http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184843&page=16)] Full info za NBA 2K7: Citat:
Poslednja ispravka: donator99 (10.2.2008 u 21:09) Razlog: dodat info za 2K7 |
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20.2.2008, 23:55 | #11 | ||
Deo inventara foruma
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Re: Lista PS3 igara i SPE iskorišćenosti u njima
Nastavljam flood ovog threada podacima koji vecini posetioca ovog foruma ne znace bas nista
https://www.cmpevents.com/GD08/a.asp...11&SessID=6653 Citat:
Citat:
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13.3.2008, 17:12 | #12 | ||||
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Re: Lista PS3 igara i SPE iskorišćenosti u njima
US Airforce(mozda) kupuje PS3 zbog Cell procesora:http://www.fbo.gov/spg/USAF/AFMC/AFR...SynopsisP.html
Citat:
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news..._supercomputer Citat:
Citat:
http://gravity.phy.umassd.edu/ps3.html PS3 klaster se koristi da prikaze model gravitacionih talasa nastalih kolizijom crnih rupa: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/02...ng_blackholes/ http://gravity.phy.umassd.edu/ps3.html Citat:
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23.4.2008, 14:04 | #13 | ||
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Re: Lista PS3 igara i SPE iskorišćenosti u njima
"Engine development is an artistic process" Mike Acton of Insomniac on PS3 and next-gen game development
Citat:
Citat:
H264 Real Time encoding on Cell/B.E.: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cell-h264/ 3rd place in Region 2 here: http://www-304.ibm.com/jct09002c/uni...contests/cell/ Insomniac Games R&D: http://insomniacgames.com/tech/techpage.php *** Raytracing on CELL Probajte Raytracing na svom PS-u 3. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/irt http://gametomorrow.com/blog/index.p...5/cell-vs-g80/ http://gametomorrow.com/blog/index.p...r-at-gdc-2007/ http://gametomorrow.com/blog/index.p...r-irt-at-sc06/ Tech http://www.gametomorrow.com/minor/barry/iRT-Sumary.pdf http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/~benthin/cellrt06.pdf http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~olano/635/lohr1.pdf http://eric_rollins.home.mindspring.com/ray/ray.html Interactive raytracing on 3 x PS3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLte5f34ya8 |
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14.5.2008, 23:20 | #14 | |
Deo inventara foruma
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Re: Lista PS3 igara i SPE iskorišćenosti u njima
Citat:
Meni se sve cini da ce sledeci Playstation koristiti verziju Cella koja bude dostupna u to vreme. Sony, ocigledno, ne odustaje od razvoja Cella, sto ce se visestruko isplatiti kada izadje sledeci PS(pod uslovom da ce koristiti Cell procesor), posto ce Sony imati spremne i optimizovane alate za pravljenje igara, pa nece morati da pocinje sve od nule, kao sto je to uradio sa Playstationom 3, sto ce smanjiti troskove pravljenja tih alata i smanjiti vreme koje ce programerima biti potrebno da bi optimizovali igru za Playstation konzolu i njene hardverske resurse. |
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14.5.2008, 23:55 | #15 |
Deo inventara foruma
Član od: 1.12.2006.
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Re: Lista PS3 igara i SPE iskorišćenosti u njima
Taj Cell jos samo da poleti
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Sledeći korisnik se zahvaljuje korisniku zdravkelja na korisnoj poruci: | ||
SirDuck (15.5.2008) |
15.5.2008, 6:41 | #17 |
Deo inventara foruma
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Re: Lista PS3 igara i SPE iskorišćenosti u njima
Sony je odlicno sve smislio sto se piraterije tie.Bukvalno je nemoguce napraviti pirata za PS3
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15.5.2008, 10:38 | #18 |
Deo inventara foruma
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Re: Lista PS3 igara i SPE iskorišćenosti u njima
Misliš? Jedino što sprečava pojavu pirata je nepostojane BR diskova na tržištu u tolikom broju.... Čekaj da par milijardi ljudi dobije BR rezače i diskove, pa će se uvijek naći neka budala koja će to da kopira
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15.5.2008, 10:49 | #19 | |
Deo inventara foruma
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Re: Lista PS3 igara i SPE iskorišćenosti u njima
Citat:
Pa imaju jače kompjutere u avionima, baš im treba neka tamo konzola, igračka, da ima "pomogne pri radu" |
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15.5.2008, 11:28 | #20 |
Deo inventara foruma
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Re: Lista PS3 igara i SPE iskorišćenosti u njima
@NjegovaWisost
Nema to veze sa BluRay medijima.Sony se potrudio oko zastite protiv pokretanja nepotpisanog koda i jos gomile stvari.Cak je i jedan deo procesora rezervisan iskljucivo za program koji se zove Hypervisor, koji stalno radi sa ulogom da spreci pokretanje nepotpisanog koda i jos nekih stvari. Kada bude napravljen loader, bice moguce igrati backupe.Dotle nista. Nije problem u medijima.To se lako zameni eksternim hard diskom.Problem je u nepostojanju loadera. |
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